German official insults Arabs and Turks
David Crossland, Foreign Correspondent
- Last Updated: October 07. 2009 2:03AM UAE / October 6. 2009 10:03PM GMT
Thilo Sarrazin told a news conference that he regrets his remarks about the Arab and Turkish populations in Berlin. AP
BERLIN // A top German central bank official has caused outrage by saying Turkish and Arab immigrants sponge off the state, are incapable of integrating themselves into German society and “constantly produce little girls with headscarves”.
Thilo Sarrazin, a former finance minister of the city-state of Berlin who was appointed as a board member of the Bundesbank, Germany’s central bank, this year, is under growing pressure to resign after he made the comments in an interview with Lettre International, a cultural magazine, about Berlin’s economic problems last week.
“A large number of Arabs and Turks in this city, who have increased in number as a result of wrong policies, have no productive function other than the fruit and vegetable trade,” he said.
“The Turks are conquering Germany in the same way the Kosovars conquered Kosovo: through a higher birth rate,” he said.
“I don’t have to acknowledge anyone who lives off the state, rejects this state, doesn’t properly take care of the education of his children and constantly produces little girls with headscarves,” he said.
About 70 per cent of the Turkish and 90 per cent of the Arab population in Berlin were like that, he said. “In addition they have a mentality that is aggressive and atavistic.”
Mr Sarrazin, 64, is well known in Germany for making provocative comments. But this time he may have gone too far. His centre-left Social Democrat Party is considering expelling him and the Berlin state prosecutor’s office said it was investigating whether to prosecute him for racial incitement.
Immigrant groups and politicians from all parties, apart from the far-right National Democratic Party, expressed their disgust. The deputy governor of the Turkish central bank, Ibrahim Turhan, said: “May Allah give him sense.”
Kenan Kolat, the chairman of the Turkish Community in Germany, which represents some of the 2.8 million people with Turkish roots living in Germany, called Mr Sarrazin’s comments “shocking and populist”.
“Such remarks are grist for the mill for right-wing extremists. Mr Sarrazin doesn’t think about what impact his words have,” Mr Kolat said.
Despite the public outrage, it is believed many Germans secretly agree with Mr Sarrazin’s comments. The interview reflects the country’s failure to integrate many of the 15 million inhabitants with an immigrant background, who account for almost one-fifth of the population.
Germany has about 4m Muslim residents, most of whom are descendants of Turks invited in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s as “guest workers” to make up for a shortage of manpower after the Second World War. They helped rebuild the country from the rubble of the war, but German society remains reluctant to accept them.
Their unemployment rate is twice as high as the national average, and they are under-represented in parliament, with just 15 MPs of foreign extraction in the Bundestag lower house. That is 2.4 per cent of the 622 MPs.
International surveys show the German education system is failing to provide adequate schooling for the children of many Turks, who are still widely described as “foreigners” even if they and their parents were born in Germany, and who regularly complain of discrimination when applying for jobs or trying to rent apartments.
Die Welt, a conservative daily, defended Mr Sarrazin in an editorial.
“If people who carry responsibility aren’t permitted to publicly voice their thoughts and make mistakes, public debates will become barren and stupid,” the newspaper said.
The venerable Bundesbank, one of Germany’s most respected public institutions, took the highly unusual step of issuing a statement distancing itself from Mr Sarrazin’s remarks. Its governor, Axel Weber, said Mr Sarrazin had damaged the image of the bank and indirectly urged him to resign.
However, Mr Weber does not have the power to sack Mr Sarrazin, because he was appointed by the German president, Horst Köhler, who has so far remained silent on the matter.
The controversy has led to the creation of a new political party to defend the interest of immigrants in Germany. One of the founders, Vlad Georgescu, a Romanian-born author, said: “We need a party so that immigrants have a voice and can effectively defend themselves in the political arena against such defamation.”
Mr Sarrazin apologised for his comments. “Not every formulation in this interview was well chosen,” he said in a statement last week.
“I wanted to describe the problems and the outlook for the city of Berlin, but I didn’t want to discredit individual ethnic groups.”
It is unclear whether that apology will suffice to let him keep his job. “He has to resign,” wrote the Berliner Zeitung, a Berlin newspaper. “He argues in racist terms. And that is unacceptable.”
Mr Sarrazin is no stranger to controversy. While he was finance minister for Berlin, he said unemployed people were too fat and he presented a menu that would allow them to eat a healthy, balanced diet for just €4.25 (Dh23) per day, including a sausage and sauerkraut for lunch.
foreign.desk@thenational.ae
I think there are far more than just one or two points that must be addressed concerning this story. I am expressing my opinion, not "formal research." My comments are generalities, meaning that I do not mean 100% of any group, but, perhaps, "most of." Also, Turks & Arabs are not the same, but they share many similar statistics & it's difficult to differentiate between them on the street because of their shared religious traditions. So, unfortunately, what applies to one often applies to the other & they are often lumped into one cumulative ball called, "Turks." It isn't necessary that you like it, only necessary that you understand it.
Yes, there are more Germans who feel the same as Sarrazin than are on public record. Because Germans, in general, tend to believe that they are continually under public scrutiny from the rest of the world due to their history, they try to publicly remain very "politically correct." How they REALLY feel is often a very different thing. Generally, they not only feel a great deal of animosity toward Turks & Arabs, but toward nearly every other immigrant-group in Germany.
The Germans asked the Turks to come over & give them a hand & in return they would be offered substantially higher pay than in Turkey. The problem is that, in the brochure (so to speak), it wasn't advertised that they were expected to return home, so the Turks naturally brought along their families to share in "a better life." Now, after x number of generations, they feel it's completely unreasonable to be asked to leave or to change their lifestyle(s). Germany also did not do a good job in implementing integration programs that would teach their new residents the language or culture. They just put them directly to work. Those programs are in place now, but only for newcomers & there isn't any way to force a twenty-year resident to do anything about their language, etc. now.
The Turks (in general) didn't (& don't) make much effort to learn the language or cultural ideals of their new home. They still rebel against the language & bastardize it so that it is nearly unrecognizable. So many, especially women, simply don't learn any German at all. The men, young & old, constantly spit on the streets (which is offensive to Germans... not to mention completely unhealthy for everyone), the anger in the youth is obvious in the amount of graffiti general disrespect shown toward nearly everyone they encounter.
Now, both groups are equally to blame for the current mess... & it really is a mess. People are still getting more angry & hurt on both sides. So, when someone looks at the statistics & makes remarks like Sarrazin's, there is a collective gasp & shrieks of "racism!" are heard over the globe. Well, his remarks ARE racist, but only to a certain extent. The numbers didn't create themselves. It's a fact that, as a group, Turks have a very high percentage of unemployment & also low-wage employment. Of course, much of this is due to their inadequate language abilities. Their Turkish families, friends & neighbors do not encourage & promote strong language skills & education. Germans tend to be quite openly racist in their hiring practices, regardless of education/ability. So the cycle continues.
My opinion is that it would be in the best interests of the Turkish community in Germany to hear comments like these & take action! The Turks need to prove the Germans wrong. They need to strongly increase promotion of education & strong language skills within their families & social structures. Germany doesn't "owe" them anything. They are all welcome to go back to Turkey if they don't like it here. But if they want to prosper, succeed & be respected in the German society, their most famous public personalities need to promote language & education first & foremost.
I also feel that Germans need to give up the idea that Germany might ever go back to becoming all-German again. It is never ever going to happen. There are brown people here. There are black people here. There are whites from other nations here. Germany is very multi-cultural, whether they like it or not.
Acceptance is the real answer to these sort of issues. So, it is one thing to think that more of the residents of a certain ethnic background need to improve their economic standing in the nation, but to belittle the religious beliefs of any group of people simply MUST flat-out STOP. Religion (meaning "Christianity") is taught in the public schools of Germany from 1st class (yes, 6/7 years old) on through grade school. In Berlin there is the option of choosing Ethics. But in the majority of Germany, there is no option except Catholic or Protestant & those groups are separated on the first day. The Germans think that a young girl in a head-scarf who comes to school is "different" from her classmates. Of course! But so is the one with green eyes from the one with blue eyes. The Asian girl from the Aryan girl. These are all differences that will be with them throughout their lives as they walk down the street or go to work. Isn't best to get used to & accept them when they're young & in school? Isn't it best to learn about what the head-scarf means & learn to respect their beliefs by keeping the children together & allow relationships to develop? Trying to force people to change religious customs that are not damaging to the host-country or its residents, only shows intolerance & lack of security in their own foundations while infuriating the group being pressured.
There are so many really beautiful things about Germany & its culture, but this is truly a very difficult & frustrating issue that over-shadows many of the positive aspects. Neither side is willing to compromise in the least. Neighboring European nations tend only to contribute to the problem. There is racism everywhere. I dare anyone to find a nation devoid of it. Snide remarks are not necessarily a good idea, but it IS possible for the people taking the hit to take the cue to get their act together (so to speak) & change their community from within. It IS possible for Turks & Arabs to succeed in Germany (without being a part of the mafia). They have to work at it, just like anyone else. Yes, it IS difficult, but it IS possible & it IS worth it. But, just like in our country, it will take many generations to change the situation & it simply MUST come from within the Turkish & Arabic communities as much as from the Germans.
I must add: a most interesting thing, however, is that, as "racist" as so many Germans are, when an individual or group shows dedication to success & improvement, they tend to really come all out in support. It's pretty impressive.
When it was announced that Obama was the winner of our Presidential election, there was a lot of talk, whether lightheartedly or serious doesn't matter, about when Germany would find itself with an ethnically Turkish Chancellor or President.
In response to simplistic arguemtn put forward by Robin. I want to say what do you mean migrate. People have their own set of values and is born there. Your statement may ressonate with those who belive in Spanish Inquistion. The second or third generation are not immigrant and their values are different from the 1st generation of immigrant and are not guest and will feel as alien as anyonelse in a foregine setting when visiting their parents native countries. Before throwing statement like integration, one must qualify it. The fact that the 2nd and 3rd geneation are asking for the rights as enjoyed by others (i.e Jews) does not make them alien but rather more involved with the soecities being. Since we are living in a gloabal village where information and ideas are not isolated in their won little village, it is normal to have differing way of looking at life unless one wants to turn back the time. If however if Mr. Robin means integration as having a monoltick culture where every Friday one gets drunk and vomits on the road along with the growing yob culture with no sense of respect for anyone and a headonistic life style then most sensible people will object to. Most values in the west are relative. Using Mr. Robins simplistic discourse one can argue that Perhaps the cocasian American, Australian should migrate back to Europe with their values since the indegenious Black,Red Indian population are living under threat of strange customs.
The political discourse in Germany and the West still comes from a position of supremacist thinking. It is convenient to hide economic exploitation behind a smokescreen of accusations which negates a basic fact: We are all humans, come from a fairly narrow gene pool and are not fundamentally different from each other.
Yet another outburst of hate and yet another example of anti arab visa vie anti muslim sentiment. The strange thing is the lobsided reaction of the Arab and their perception of European politician. The idea of self respect and dignity has been replaced with anyting cocassian.
The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a safe environment with an Islamic ethos.Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith. Muslim schools are working to try to create a bridge between communities.
There is a belief among ethnic minority parens that the British schooling does not adequatly address their cultural needs. Failing to meet this need could result in feeling resentment among a group who already feel excluded. Setting up Muslim school is a defensive response.
State schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English to bilingual Muslim children. Bilingual teachers are needed to teach English to such children along with their mother tongue. According to a number of studies, a child will not learn a second language if his first language is ignored.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslims
have the right to educate their children in an environment that suits their culture. This notion of "integration", actually means "assimilation", by which people generally really mean "be more like me". That is not multiculturalism. In Sydney, Muslims were refused to build a Muslim school, because of a protest by the residents. Yet a year later, permission was given for the building of a Catholic school and no protests from the residents. This clrearly shows the blatant hypocrisy, double standards and racism. Christians oppose Muslim schools in western countries yet build their own religious schools.
British schooling and the British society is the home of institutional racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem, therefore, majority of them leave schools with low grades. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. Every native child is born with a gene or virus of racism, therefore, no law could change the attitudes of racism towards those who are different. It is not only the common man, even member of the royal family is involved in racism. The father of a Pakistani officer cadet who was called a "Paki" by Prince Harry has profoundly condemned his actions. He had felt proud when he met the Queen and the Prince of Wales at his son's passing out parade at Sandhurst in 2006 but now felt upset after learning about the Prince's comments. Queen Victoria invited an Imam from India to teach her Urdu language. He was highly respected by the Queen but other members of the royal family had no respect for him. He was forced to go back to India. His portrait is still in one of the royal place.
There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
When your government invites people from other countries to immigrate to your country, you may not agree with it, but you should still treat them as guests; with courtesy and civility.
Unfortunately, muslim people do not tend to integrate into Western societies because of our vast differences in values, beliefs, religion and so on. This is what creates religious and ethnic tension.
The best things muslims can do is immigrate to muslim countries where the values to which they are accustomed are to be found. The best thing Western countries can do is encourage immigration of people whose culture is similar. That way, everyone remains contented and happy.
Added: 10/11/09 09:16:00 PM
I think there are far more than just one or two points that must be addressed concerning this story. I am expressing my opinion, not "formal research." My comments are generalities, meaning that I do not mean 100% of any group, but, perhaps, "most of." Also, Turks & Arabs are not the same, but they share many similar statistics & it's difficult to differentiate between them on the street because of their shared religious traditions. So, unfortunately, what applies to one often applies to the other & they are often lumped into one cumulative ball called, "Turks." It isn't necessary that you like it, only necessary that you understand it.
Yes, there are more Germans who feel the same as Sarrazin than are on public record. Because Germans, in general, tend to believe that they are continually under public scrutiny from the rest of the world due to their history, they try to publicly remain very "politically correct." How they REALLY feel is often a very different thing. Generally, they not only feel a great deal of animosity toward Turks & Arabs, but toward nearly every other immigrant-group in Germany.
The Germans asked the Turks to come over & give them a hand & in return they would be offered substantially higher pay than in Turkey. The problem is that, in the brochure (so to speak), it wasn't advertised that they were expected to return home, so the Turks naturally brought along their families to share in "a better life." Now, after x number of generations, they feel it's completely unreasonable to be asked to leave or to change their lifestyle(s). Germany also did not do a good job in implementing integration programs that would teach their new residents the language or culture. They just put them directly to work. Those programs are in place now, but only for newcomers & there isn't any way to force a twenty-year resident to do anything about their language, etc. now.
The Turks (in general) didn't (& don't) make much effort to learn the language or cultural ideals of their new home. They still rebel against the language & bastardize it so that it is nearly unrecognizable. So many, especially women, simply don't learn any German at all. The men, young & old, constantly spit on the streets (which is offensive to Germans... not to mention completely unhealthy for everyone), the anger in the youth is obvious in the amount of graffiti general disrespect shown toward nearly everyone they encounter.
Now, both groups are equally to blame for the current mess... & it really is a mess. People are still getting more angry & hurt on both sides. So, when someone looks at the statistics & makes remarks like Sarrazin's, there is a collective gasp & shrieks of "racism!" are heard over the globe. Well, his remarks ARE racist, but only to a certain extent. The numbers didn't create themselves. It's a fact that, as a group, Turks have a very high percentage of unemployment & also low-wage employment. Of course, much of this is due to their inadequate language abilities. Their Turkish families, friends & neighbors do not encourage & promote strong language skills & education. Germans tend to be quite openly racist in their hiring practices, regardless of education/ability. So the cycle continues.
My opinion is that it would be in the best interests of the Turkish community in Germany to hear comments like these & take action! The Turks need to prove the Germans wrong. They need to strongly increase promotion of education & strong language skills within their families & social structures. Germany doesn't "owe" them anything. They are all welcome to go back to Turkey if they don't like it here. But if they want to prosper, succeed & be respected in the German society, their most famous public personalities need to promote language & education first & foremost.
I also feel that Germans need to give up the idea that Germany might ever go back to becoming all-German again. It is never ever going to happen. There are brown people here. There are black people here. There are whites from other nations here. Germany is very multi-cultural, whether they like it or not.
Acceptance is the real answer to these sort of issues. So, it is one thing to think that more of the residents of a certain ethnic background need to improve their economic standing in the nation, but to belittle the religious beliefs of any group of people simply MUST flat-out STOP. Religion (meaning "Christianity") is taught in the public schools of Germany from 1st class (yes, 6/7 years old) on through grade school. In Berlin there is the option of choosing Ethics. But in the majority of Germany, there is no option except Catholic or Protestant & those groups are separated on the first day. The Germans think that a young girl in a head-scarf who comes to school is "different" from her classmates. Of course! But so is the one with green eyes from the one with blue eyes. The Asian girl from the Aryan girl. These are all differences that will be with them throughout their lives as they walk down the street or go to work. Isn't best to get used to & accept them when they're young & in school? Isn't it best to learn about what the head-scarf means & learn to respect their beliefs by keeping the children together & allow relationships to develop? Trying to force people to change religious customs that are not damaging to the host-country or its residents, only shows intolerance & lack of security in their own foundations while infuriating the group being pressured.
There are so many really beautiful things about Germany & its culture, but this is truly a very difficult & frustrating issue that over-shadows many of the positive aspects. Neither side is willing to compromise in the least. Neighboring European nations tend only to contribute to the problem. There is racism everywhere. I dare anyone to find a nation devoid of it. Snide remarks are not necessarily a good idea, but it IS possible for the people taking the hit to take the cue to get their act together (so to speak) & change their community from within. It IS possible for Turks & Arabs to succeed in Germany (without being a part of the mafia). They have to work at it, just like anyone else. Yes, it IS difficult, but it IS possible & it IS worth it. But, just like in our country, it will take many generations to change the situation & it simply MUST come from within the Turkish & Arabic communities as much as from the Germans.
I must add: a most interesting thing, however, is that, as "racist" as so many Germans are, when an individual or group shows dedication to success & improvement, they tend to really come all out in support. It's pretty impressive.
When it was announced that Obama was the winner of our Presidential election, there was a lot of talk, whether lightheartedly or serious doesn't matter, about when Germany would find itself with an ethnically Turkish Chancellor or President.
Betsy Ross, Dresden
Added: 10/09/09 01:56:00 AM
In response to simplistic arguemtn put forward by Robin. I want to say what do you mean migrate. People have their own set of values and is born there. Your statement may ressonate with those who belive in Spanish Inquistion. The second or third generation are not immigrant and their values are different from the 1st generation of immigrant and are not guest and will feel as alien as anyonelse in a foregine setting when visiting their parents native countries. Before throwing statement like integration, one must qualify it. The fact that the 2nd and 3rd geneation are asking for the rights as enjoyed by others (i.e Jews) does not make them alien but rather more involved with the soecities being. Since we are living in a gloabal village where information and ideas are not isolated in their won little village, it is normal to have differing way of looking at life unless one wants to turn back the time. If however if Mr. Robin means integration as having a monoltick culture where every Friday one gets drunk and vomits on the road along with the growing yob culture with no sense of respect for anyone and a headonistic life style then most sensible people will object to. Most values in the west are relative. Using Mr. Robins simplistic discourse one can argue that Perhaps the cocasian American, Australian should migrate back to Europe with their values since the indegenious Black,Red Indian population are living under threat of strange customs.
Joe Blog, london
Added: 10/08/09 07:39:00 PM
The political discourse in Germany and the West still comes from a position of supremacist thinking. It is convenient to hide economic exploitation behind a smokescreen of accusations which negates a basic fact: We are all humans, come from a fairly narrow gene pool and are not fundamentally different from each other.
Martina Lauer, Ottawa
Added: 10/07/09 11:44:00 PM
Yet another outburst of hate and yet another example of anti arab visa vie anti muslim sentiment. The strange thing is the lobsided reaction of the Arab and their perception of European politician. The idea of self respect and dignity has been replaced with anyting cocassian.
Joe Blog, london
Added: 10/07/09 08:02:00 PM
The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a safe environment with an Islamic ethos.Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith. Muslim schools are working to try to create a bridge between communities.
There is a belief among ethnic minority parens that the British schooling does not adequatly address their cultural needs. Failing to meet this need could result in feeling resentment among a group who already feel excluded. Setting up Muslim school is a defensive response.
State schools with monolingual teachers are not capable to teach English to bilingual Muslim children. Bilingual teachers are needed to teach English to such children along with their mother tongue. According to a number of studies, a child will not learn a second language if his first language is ignored.
Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. Muslims
have the right to educate their children in an environment that suits their culture. This notion of "integration", actually means "assimilation", by which people generally really mean "be more like me". That is not multiculturalism. In Sydney, Muslims were refused to build a Muslim school, because of a protest by the residents. Yet a year later, permission was given for the building of a Catholic school and no protests from the residents. This clrearly shows the blatant hypocrisy, double standards and racism. Christians oppose Muslim schools in western countries yet build their own religious schools.
British schooling and the British society is the home of institutional racism. The result is that Muslim children are unable to develop self-confidence and self-esteem, therefore, majority of them leave schools with low grades. Racism is deeply rooted in British society. Every native child is born with a gene or virus of racism, therefore, no law could change the attitudes of racism towards those who are different. It is not only the common man, even member of the royal family is involved in racism. The father of a Pakistani officer cadet who was called a "Paki" by Prince Harry has profoundly condemned his actions. He had felt proud when he met the Queen and the Prince of Wales at his son's passing out parade at Sandhurst in 2006 but now felt upset after learning about the Prince's comments. Queen Victoria invited an Imam from India to teach her Urdu language. He was highly respected by the Queen but other members of the royal family had no respect for him. He was forced to go back to India. His portrait is still in one of the royal place.
There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim pupils are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools with bilingual Muslim teachers. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Iftikhar Ahmad, London
Added: 10/07/09 03:00:00 PM
When your government invites people from other countries to immigrate to your country, you may not agree with it, but you should still treat them as guests; with courtesy and civility.
Unfortunately, muslim people do not tend to integrate into Western societies because of our vast differences in values, beliefs, religion and so on. This is what creates religious and ethnic tension.
The best things muslims can do is immigrate to muslim countries where the values to which they are accustomed are to be found. The best thing Western countries can do is encourage immigration of people whose culture is similar. That way, everyone remains contented and happy.
Robin Henry, Alice Springs